Well presented Gabe - a good analysis of the complex situation.
Of course on one point you now that we will disagree - it has to be 100% juice, not because that is the Cider Is Wine standard, but for simplicity and ease of transition for consumers.
As it is an established standard for wine, it makes sense primarily for market reasons, and also for quality and authenticity.
Simultaneously employing that standard would allow for the use of the surplus orchard fruit, albeit that it takes time to grow a market. With the support of Heineken, Westons and others there is no doubt that this can be done. The growth of the wine industry in the 90's & 00s, not just in the UK but globally, is testament to the fact that it is achievable. And with such a standard were to be the case then the export benefits would follow.
We have to accept that the government does support the cider industry, not just by the most beneficial duty rates, which have to be protected if the above is to be taken to heart by all, but also in its proximity to the establishment. The NACM is about as close as you can get.
The ultimate point is that cider or Orchard Wines can be a tremendous force to regenerate this industry, all it requires is to subscribe to a standard that all stakeholders - government, producers, market - can believe in. 100% juice not from concentrate is as simple as it can and is required to be.
Thanks Alistair. No doubt that 100% juice ciders account for my top cider tasting experiences, but they also account for my worst! It alone is not the ultimate arbiter of 'quality'. I refuse to believe that a brilliantly made, balanced, aromatic and intense cider at 80% juice is inferior to a 100% juice eggy, cabbagey, poop fest.
The world of cider knows cider to be many different things - SV, flavoured, easy going, still, fizzy, pink - and so I think you have taken a smart move in trying to brand the element that you want to advocate. And although I understand your reasoning in calling them orchard wines, I prefer to call them cider and perry! Thanks for your contribution.
Interesting points especially around the optics of the situation from those outside the industry. What a grower does after losing a contract may not be in the public eye as much as this was. As always, a balanced view from large to small producers across the various scales and production philosophies.
Hi Gabe, I knew something was up when Laura said I'd been rung by a journalist for comment! Your piece is very good and certainly covered it all very well. Like you say it is nuanced. I feel that as a producer of cider from traditional cider apple varieties with a (where possible) 100% juice content I'm still explaining a lot to a lot of people! I go into a supermarket now and in the cider section it says 'Apple Cider'! They have both types, apple and cider! I've always longed for a world where more people 'get' what I, and many other cider producers of my ilk, do. And I do think that mass produced cider by and large lets the side down. What I mean by that is as follows: About twenty years ago they told the world "wait 'til you try this cider, it's really good, you'll love it". And the world tasted it and went "Hey, this isn't nearly as good as you said it was gonna be, we're off." At that point I hoped that this would be cider's 'Carling moment' where quality hit a low zenith threshold and people were turned off in sufficiently large numbers to search out a tastier alternative. Where genuine craft/artisan producers got their big call up and hit the big time. Was I naive? Probably. Will our time still come? I really hope so. But hey, talking cider is way better than not talking about cider and this story definitely got us talking and thinking cider!
Well, the launch of Magner's 18 years DID have a massively positive effect on the industry. Volumes went from c.600m litres to to c.950m litres in 3 years! Westons, Thatchers and Aspall all grew from regional to national, micro producers like Ross Cider made the leap to 50/60/80 thousand litres, and hundreds of new makers established across the country. And your Carling equiavlent is Strongbow - which is seeing market share decline. The spectacular wealth and range of ciders available (if not huge volue) today is really rooted in that big brand.
BUT, 18 years on, I agree that there is so much more that could be done to by the industry to champion the category as being value laden. The challenge is also in the market which sees cider as being beer like (makers big and small drive/fit into this paradigm) and therefore fetching beer prices but costs considerably more money per litre to produce (in the way you do let's say).
A well presented and balanced opinion, I agree wholeheartedly. Smaller makers are looking to increase their orchard area if possible. However it is an expensive business to start up and look after - could there be another market for the apples here? I guess it maybe difficult to put one in touch with the other.
It seems that, in our current times, grubbing up trees when we are all being told we should look after the planet by planting more trees is counter intuitive. I am looking to plant more orchards however am looking at the best ways to make it financially possible in the next few years.
Juice content should be above 50% prior to fermentation it is too much of a leap right now to go any higher. It would be too much of a shock to the mainstream market to jump too far and we need to keep consumers on board. Cider maybe made the same way as wine but it is not perceived as wine in the public eye - a lot of work by people with deep pockets needs to be done before it is viewed as such.
Anyway, I digress, fundamentally I guess my point is Heineken are pulling up orchards, a lot of smaller producers would like to plant orchards we should publicise this, we want more trees, we want more biodiversity can we get government help? Can we work with a large company to keep the orchards going? Can we use this as good PR for our businesses and make the most noise?
Very good points Phil! Enabling smaller producers to be in a viable position to capitalise upon the fruit that another maker does not need, and thus saving the orchard with all the biodiversity benefits is also key. Thanks for your contribution
Well presented Gabe - a good analysis of the complex situation.
Of course on one point you now that we will disagree - it has to be 100% juice, not because that is the Cider Is Wine standard, but for simplicity and ease of transition for consumers.
As it is an established standard for wine, it makes sense primarily for market reasons, and also for quality and authenticity.
Simultaneously employing that standard would allow for the use of the surplus orchard fruit, albeit that it takes time to grow a market. With the support of Heineken, Westons and others there is no doubt that this can be done. The growth of the wine industry in the 90's & 00s, not just in the UK but globally, is testament to the fact that it is achievable. And with such a standard were to be the case then the export benefits would follow.
We have to accept that the government does support the cider industry, not just by the most beneficial duty rates, which have to be protected if the above is to be taken to heart by all, but also in its proximity to the establishment. The NACM is about as close as you can get.
The ultimate point is that cider or Orchard Wines can be a tremendous force to regenerate this industry, all it requires is to subscribe to a standard that all stakeholders - government, producers, market - can believe in. 100% juice not from concentrate is as simple as it can and is required to be.
Thanks Alistair. No doubt that 100% juice ciders account for my top cider tasting experiences, but they also account for my worst! It alone is not the ultimate arbiter of 'quality'. I refuse to believe that a brilliantly made, balanced, aromatic and intense cider at 80% juice is inferior to a 100% juice eggy, cabbagey, poop fest.
The world of cider knows cider to be many different things - SV, flavoured, easy going, still, fizzy, pink - and so I think you have taken a smart move in trying to brand the element that you want to advocate. And although I understand your reasoning in calling them orchard wines, I prefer to call them cider and perry! Thanks for your contribution.
Interesting points especially around the optics of the situation from those outside the industry. What a grower does after losing a contract may not be in the public eye as much as this was. As always, a balanced view from large to small producers across the various scales and production philosophies.
Hi Gabe, I knew something was up when Laura said I'd been rung by a journalist for comment! Your piece is very good and certainly covered it all very well. Like you say it is nuanced. I feel that as a producer of cider from traditional cider apple varieties with a (where possible) 100% juice content I'm still explaining a lot to a lot of people! I go into a supermarket now and in the cider section it says 'Apple Cider'! They have both types, apple and cider! I've always longed for a world where more people 'get' what I, and many other cider producers of my ilk, do. And I do think that mass produced cider by and large lets the side down. What I mean by that is as follows: About twenty years ago they told the world "wait 'til you try this cider, it's really good, you'll love it". And the world tasted it and went "Hey, this isn't nearly as good as you said it was gonna be, we're off." At that point I hoped that this would be cider's 'Carling moment' where quality hit a low zenith threshold and people were turned off in sufficiently large numbers to search out a tastier alternative. Where genuine craft/artisan producers got their big call up and hit the big time. Was I naive? Probably. Will our time still come? I really hope so. But hey, talking cider is way better than not talking about cider and this story definitely got us talking and thinking cider!
Well, the launch of Magner's 18 years DID have a massively positive effect on the industry. Volumes went from c.600m litres to to c.950m litres in 3 years! Westons, Thatchers and Aspall all grew from regional to national, micro producers like Ross Cider made the leap to 50/60/80 thousand litres, and hundreds of new makers established across the country. And your Carling equiavlent is Strongbow - which is seeing market share decline. The spectacular wealth and range of ciders available (if not huge volue) today is really rooted in that big brand.
BUT, 18 years on, I agree that there is so much more that could be done to by the industry to champion the category as being value laden. The challenge is also in the market which sees cider as being beer like (makers big and small drive/fit into this paradigm) and therefore fetching beer prices but costs considerably more money per litre to produce (in the way you do let's say).
A well presented and balanced opinion, I agree wholeheartedly. Smaller makers are looking to increase their orchard area if possible. However it is an expensive business to start up and look after - could there be another market for the apples here? I guess it maybe difficult to put one in touch with the other.
It seems that, in our current times, grubbing up trees when we are all being told we should look after the planet by planting more trees is counter intuitive. I am looking to plant more orchards however am looking at the best ways to make it financially possible in the next few years.
Juice content should be above 50% prior to fermentation it is too much of a leap right now to go any higher. It would be too much of a shock to the mainstream market to jump too far and we need to keep consumers on board. Cider maybe made the same way as wine but it is not perceived as wine in the public eye - a lot of work by people with deep pockets needs to be done before it is viewed as such.
Anyway, I digress, fundamentally I guess my point is Heineken are pulling up orchards, a lot of smaller producers would like to plant orchards we should publicise this, we want more trees, we want more biodiversity can we get government help? Can we work with a large company to keep the orchards going? Can we use this as good PR for our businesses and make the most noise?
Very good points Phil! Enabling smaller producers to be in a viable position to capitalise upon the fruit that another maker does not need, and thus saving the orchard with all the biodiversity benefits is also key. Thanks for your contribution